This had me constantly rewinding to “what did media used to be like?” as I read it, and mainly made me think of how often I’ve tried to explain Xena: Warrior Princess to people who are too young to have watched it. She was a hero who’d previously been a villain, so her entire story was about earning redemption, and that’s a quest she never believed would have an end. There were Dark Xena episodes (because of course, it was the kind of campy show that needs to let the lead vamp now and then), but the goal was always “we need to help her get back to Good Xena” because the assumption was always that she does not truly like being evil. And meanwhile she was anything but boring.
The clearest example I can think of what you're talking about is The West Wing vs House of Cards. One is hopelessly naive, the other hopelessly cynical. But our 21st century brains somehow accept House of Cards more easily. It isn't "more realistic", it isn't "better written", we just somehow mistook edginess for merit.
i agree. absolutely. wrote a similar rant myself when joker came out. however, i blame the rise of libertarianism and ayn rand for the popularization of narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths. (ayn rand famously suggested that a sociopath is the perfect leader. yeah. no.) i mean, we had anti-heroes all through the 1970s. (see:dirty harry, paul kersey, mad max, sonny wortzik, travis bickle…) the 70s were peppered with them. and people admired them then. but i really think the shit hit the fan when libertarianism became the popular political movement it has been since the turn of the century. selfishness being the main ideal. that said, i totally agree with you.
Ah, yes. Good old Cowboy Cop archetype. Personally, I blame Blazing Saddles (1976) for killing the Western genre and leading to proliferation of Cowboy Cops to other movies. There's also Copaganda series of video essays on youtube by Skip Intro which I heartily recommend watching.
Basically, the problem is two-fold imo. Ultra-violence is fun and films love parodying it but showing it leads to impressionable children that would become future policemen thinking it should be like that. Second issue is showing the policemen killing the bad guy or doing illegal stuff like coercing a confession by using violence because they somehow KNOW the suspect is guilty. They do that even in action comedies. So now come the fun questions about action movies, thrillers, horrors and action comedies!
When was the last time you saw the bad guy get arrested instead of killed?
When was the last time you saw the bad guy get arrested without being shot or roughed up/ without resisting?
When was the last time you saw the bad guy getting sentenced in an action movie?
When was the last time you saw a policeman who never shot and/or killed a suspect (even Gil Grissom who is in CSI shot and killed a few)?
When was the last time you saw a policeman who never fired a gun?
When was the last time you saw a policeman roughly interrogating a suspect who turned out to be completely innocent and not done anything shady (if not outright illegal)?
When was the last time you saw all evidence that has being illegally obtained being inadmissible in court and the cop saying that is correct without being angry at the justice system for "letting the bad guys go"?
Libertarianism has been pretty vocal online (especially in the times before the centralization of social media) but it's never been more than fringe in the general population. For example, consider the various attempts of Senator Rand Paul to become the Republican nominee for President: lots of online support that never translated into actual vote totals.
And yet the guiding ideology of the techbros in the TESCREAL orbit is Libertarianism. It didn’t have to seduce enough people to win an election, just enough dollars. And these assholes are busy implementing the Torture Nexus because, hey, they’re not the ones who will be tortured.
you’re ignoring the cultural influence which has grown significantly over the years. in addition, a majority of the republic talking points are, in fact, libertarian in origin.
This is an outstanding, and correct, summation of events. (one quibble: I wouldn't categorize Neo from The Matrix, at least as he appeared in the film, as an abrasive, sarcastic jerk, so much as an extreme introvert. But the rest of them in that litany, yeah.) just I especially remember the year that every it seemed like young white straight guy made 300 and The Dark Knight their Whole Personalities, and it seems like we've only gone downhill from there as a society.
Now that I live outside the US, I watch alot of global media and it is refreshing to see stories that don't adhere to the american ant-hero paradigm. Free from the cultural blinders, I see the whole rotting edice for the inhuman force of destruction that it is.
So true. Antiheroes can be found everywhere (I recall Paul Atreides' arc morphing from admirable freedom fighter to full-on megalomaniac), and we seemingly never learn our lessons about idolizing them.
Atreides was written to be a warning against following charismatic leaders, and Herbert is right up there with CS Lewis in the ranks of authors who desperately advertised his authorial intent. Even in the first book where he’s allegedly “good”, Atreides constantly frets over “what if I fulfill the destiny that the eugenics nuns built me for and do a genocide?” and then he does it. At no point is he an admirable freedom fighter. He was always a white savior with “do not trust white saviors” tattooed to his forehead.
Yes! I read Dune when it was first published, and from that day to this it has driven me batty that so many people see Paul Atreides as a hero. No, damnit, he’s fucking Jim Jones! Or, more to the point, Vlad III The Impaler, who had his followers impale towns full of his enemies. He makes his grandfather Duke Vladimir Harkonnen look like a villain cosplayer compared to the real genocidal evil.
I love David Lynch's Dune, it was one of my formative movies that I grew up with, I watched it over and over again, and I blame it partially for how Paul Atreides is perceived. Because David Lynch didn't make a "what if charismatic leader sparked a Space Genocide" movie, he made a "Enlightened Leader Saves The Planet Through The Power Of Transcendental Meditation And Psychedelics" movie. And TBF I think he realized this, and regretted it ever after.
This had me constantly rewinding to “what did media used to be like?” as I read it, and mainly made me think of how often I’ve tried to explain Xena: Warrior Princess to people who are too young to have watched it. She was a hero who’d previously been a villain, so her entire story was about earning redemption, and that’s a quest she never believed would have an end. There were Dark Xena episodes (because of course, it was the kind of campy show that needs to let the lead vamp now and then), but the goal was always “we need to help her get back to Good Xena” because the assumption was always that she does not truly like being evil. And meanwhile she was anything but boring.
It really does feel like society really did suffer once Xena was no longer something we all sat down to watch on Sunday nights.
The clearest example I can think of what you're talking about is The West Wing vs House of Cards. One is hopelessly naive, the other hopelessly cynical. But our 21st century brains somehow accept House of Cards more easily. It isn't "more realistic", it isn't "better written", we just somehow mistook edginess for merit.
i agree. absolutely. wrote a similar rant myself when joker came out. however, i blame the rise of libertarianism and ayn rand for the popularization of narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths. (ayn rand famously suggested that a sociopath is the perfect leader. yeah. no.) i mean, we had anti-heroes all through the 1970s. (see:dirty harry, paul kersey, mad max, sonny wortzik, travis bickle…) the 70s were peppered with them. and people admired them then. but i really think the shit hit the fan when libertarianism became the popular political movement it has been since the turn of the century. selfishness being the main ideal. that said, i totally agree with you.
Ah, yes. Good old Cowboy Cop archetype. Personally, I blame Blazing Saddles (1976) for killing the Western genre and leading to proliferation of Cowboy Cops to other movies. There's also Copaganda series of video essays on youtube by Skip Intro which I heartily recommend watching.
Basically, the problem is two-fold imo. Ultra-violence is fun and films love parodying it but showing it leads to impressionable children that would become future policemen thinking it should be like that. Second issue is showing the policemen killing the bad guy or doing illegal stuff like coercing a confession by using violence because they somehow KNOW the suspect is guilty. They do that even in action comedies. So now come the fun questions about action movies, thrillers, horrors and action comedies!
When was the last time you saw the bad guy get arrested instead of killed?
When was the last time you saw the bad guy get arrested without being shot or roughed up/ without resisting?
When was the last time you saw the bad guy getting sentenced in an action movie?
When was the last time you saw a policeman who never shot and/or killed a suspect (even Gil Grissom who is in CSI shot and killed a few)?
When was the last time you saw a policeman who never fired a gun?
When was the last time you saw a policeman roughly interrogating a suspect who turned out to be completely innocent and not done anything shady (if not outright illegal)?
When was the last time you saw all evidence that has being illegally obtained being inadmissible in court and the cop saying that is correct without being angry at the justice system for "letting the bad guys go"?
Libertarianism has been pretty vocal online (especially in the times before the centralization of social media) but it's never been more than fringe in the general population. For example, consider the various attempts of Senator Rand Paul to become the Republican nominee for President: lots of online support that never translated into actual vote totals.
And yet the guiding ideology of the techbros in the TESCREAL orbit is Libertarianism. It didn’t have to seduce enough people to win an election, just enough dollars. And these assholes are busy implementing the Torture Nexus because, hey, they’re not the ones who will be tortured.
you’re ignoring the cultural influence which has grown significantly over the years. in addition, a majority of the republic talking points are, in fact, libertarian in origin.
This is an outstanding, and correct, summation of events. (one quibble: I wouldn't categorize Neo from The Matrix, at least as he appeared in the film, as an abrasive, sarcastic jerk, so much as an extreme introvert. But the rest of them in that litany, yeah.) just I especially remember the year that every it seemed like young white straight guy made 300 and The Dark Knight their Whole Personalities, and it seems like we've only gone downhill from there as a society.
Now that I live outside the US, I watch alot of global media and it is refreshing to see stories that don't adhere to the american ant-hero paradigm. Free from the cultural blinders, I see the whole rotting edice for the inhuman force of destruction that it is.
So true. Antiheroes can be found everywhere (I recall Paul Atreides' arc morphing from admirable freedom fighter to full-on megalomaniac), and we seemingly never learn our lessons about idolizing them.
Atreides was written to be a warning against following charismatic leaders, and Herbert is right up there with CS Lewis in the ranks of authors who desperately advertised his authorial intent. Even in the first book where he’s allegedly “good”, Atreides constantly frets over “what if I fulfill the destiny that the eugenics nuns built me for and do a genocide?” and then he does it. At no point is he an admirable freedom fighter. He was always a white savior with “do not trust white saviors” tattooed to his forehead.
Yes! I read Dune when it was first published, and from that day to this it has driven me batty that so many people see Paul Atreides as a hero. No, damnit, he’s fucking Jim Jones! Or, more to the point, Vlad III The Impaler, who had his followers impale towns full of his enemies. He makes his grandfather Duke Vladimir Harkonnen look like a villain cosplayer compared to the real genocidal evil.
I love David Lynch's Dune, it was one of my formative movies that I grew up with, I watched it over and over again, and I blame it partially for how Paul Atreides is perceived. Because David Lynch didn't make a "what if charismatic leader sparked a Space Genocide" movie, he made a "Enlightened Leader Saves The Planet Through The Power Of Transcendental Meditation And Psychedelics" movie. And TBF I think he realized this, and regretted it ever after.
I hate to say it, but it kinda goes all of the way back to Eric Draven and the 90s Bat-franchise.
Batman was pretty heroic, he would regularly endanger himself to innocents and refuse to kill.